Catalysts in Cars Getting Coffee Episode 3
Doug Barton, director of the UWEBC, talks with data governance leader Justin Swenson about his career journey and the challenges organizations face in turning data into meaningful business value. They discuss the importance of giving data stewards the time and support they need, strengthening collaboration between business and data teams, and building the data quality foundation required for effective AI.
Transcript
UWEBC Podcast Introduction
Customer experience, technology, people, and supply chains are shaping how organizations operate today, but keeping up isn’t easy. At the UWEBC, we connect leaders navigating transformational change every day. Each week, we bring you the journeys and perspectives of Wisconsin leaders shaping the future of business.
From the University of Wisconsin–Madison, this is the UWEBC podcast.
Doug Barton:
Welcome, friends. We’re doing another episode of Catalysts in Cars Getting Coffee. I’m here with Justin Swenson. Justin, say hi.
Justin Swenson:
Hey, nice to see everybody.
Doug Barton:
We just retrieved coffee from Milwaukee. We were at the Wantable Café, which played host to some incredible technologists this morning. I had the good fortune of being in the room with some of my favorite people.
Tim Dickson from Regal Rexnord was there. Derek Hyde from the Milwaukee Brewers was there, along with a bunch of other great people as well.
But we’re here with Justin, so let’s talk a little bit. It’s a Saturday.
Justin Swenson:
Yes, it is.
Doug Barton:
This is the way we roll on Saturdays. You may notice that this is the first Catalysts in Cars Getting Coffee where I’m in the passenger seat.
Justin has kindly been in charge of the driving all the way to Milwaukee and back.
Justin Swenson:
A quick, early morning.
Doug Barton:
It was. But let’s talk shop a little bit here.
Justin, we’ve gotten to know each other through your career. You proudly served at Sub-Zero Group, one of our UWEBC member companies.
Why don’t you give us a little update on what you’ve been up to and why you’re here with me today?
Justin Swenson:
Yeah, sure. Obviously, I’m here with you to give you a ride and attend the event with you.
Lately, I have been running my own company called Govern Chaos LLC. At the moment, I’m mostly blogging, getting a newsletter up and going, and getting a podcast up and going. I’m also available for consulting work if anyone needs it.
I have time available on my calendar for one-on-one discussions about things like data strategy and data governance. That’s what I’m up to at the moment. I’m currently looking for other opportunities as well or connecting with possible clients.
Doug Barton:
Terrific. Let’s spin the clock back a little bit.
Origin story. Do I remember correctly that you were a database administrator on your way into governance?
Justin Swenson:
Yes. Right out of college, I ended up doing report writing with SQL Server at an educational institution, Cardinal Stritch, which actually doesn’t exist anymore. It was a Milwaukee educational institution.
I got into database administration and then into BI work, and I basically spent pretty much my whole career in data.
The only time I was outside of data-specific roles was implementing ERP systems, implementing warehouse management systems, and then taking a little foray into starting my own startup with a group of guys I knew.
Doug Barton:
Terrific. By the way, we haven’t talked much about BI. I spent a lot of years at Cognos.
Justin Swenson:
Sure.
Doug Barton:
It was kind of famous for its business intelligence. Remember the days of Cognos and Business Objects?
Justin Swenson:
Yep. Business Objects.
Doug Barton:
And then, of course, Microsoft.
Justin Swenson:
Yep.
Doug Barton:
Cool. Maybe we could talk a little bit about your recent career and your biggest lessons learned. Are there any stories from your past and your move into data governance that you want to share?
Justin Swenson:
Specifically about data governance?
Doug Barton:
Yeah.
Justin Swenson:
I think the hardest thing about data governance, from my perspective, was finding time for data stewards to actually help improve data governance and data quality.
In my experience, data stewardship has always been an “and” role. People have their regular job, and then you’re normally trying to find someone with a little bit of data expertise within an area of the business to take on something additional. All of a sudden, they’re a data steward.
I can think of a couple of particular cases where someone was a quality engineer. Then they became the main Power BI developer on their team as we tried to push self-service to the business. Then they became the data steward for their group, the AI champion for their group, and one of the main change management leaders for their group.
It became so hard to get any time with them to work on data stewardship and data quality-specific things.
How do we document approval processes? How do we understand master data and reference data?
People were split in so many directions. But it’s hard to justify full-time data stewards, especially early on in data governance and early in the evolution of that work within a company.
Doug Barton:
And yet, if we’re going to unlock the true power of data, from data to insight, insight to action, and action into better customer experiences, better employee experiences, and better supplier experiences, that is the work that needs to get done.
Justin Swenson:
Yeah.
Doug Barton:
Businesspeople have to become more data fluent.
Justin Swenson:
Yep.
Doug Barton:
And AI fluent. Data and AI leaders probably need to meet business partners with their curiosity and capabilities as well.
Justin Swenson:
Right. It’s unrealistic for someone on the data governance team or the data team to understand all areas of the business well enough to do those things and be the person making those decisions.
They don’t know which data is most important. They don’t know which data really needs the quality tests.
If you’re talking about a sales order, and you average 50 sales orders a day while accounting makes corrections as high as negative 10 a day, only someone in sales knows whether that is normal. The person on the data team doesn’t know that this is what normal looks like, and they don’t know to put that quality test and alert in place.
You need that business perspective to really improve quality.
Doug Barton:
I think so much of the value that’s going to be unlocked by AI is going to depend upon almost an interdisciplinarity, the big word, and cross-functional cooperation.
Justin Swenson:
Mm-hmm.
Doug Barton:
I think it’s a fascinating time we’re living into.
Justin Swenson:
Yeah, absolutely.
Doug Barton:
Okay, a couple of questions here. We’re going to keep this short, as we always do, friends.
Your LinkedIn profile says “consultant, writer, podcaster.” Which hat is most fun right now?
Justin Swenson:
I am leaning into the blogging and writing at the moment.
I think I’m going to have the most fun with the podcasting part because I get to do things like this. I get to have a conversation with somebody, and I think those conversations can be a lot of fun.
You get to learn, banter, and explore different topics. I think it’s fun to meet people and have those experiences.
Doug Barton:
You’re having one right now while driving a car or supervising the driving of a car.
We’re passing a golf course. I don’t know if you noticed the way a guy just hit that ball. I thought, “Horrible.”
Well, it wasn’t just horrible. I wondered if it was coming toward us. It actually landed on the other side of the road, over the fence.
That was the protective barrier. Oh my God. We’re lucky we didn’t just get hit by a golf ball.
Justin Swenson:
Yeah, we could have captured it on camera.
Doug Barton:
Cool. Last question, then. I think I have it here.
Your LinkedIn profile also talks a little bit about some of your personal loves, including soccer and rock climbing.
Justin Swenson:
Mm-hmm.
Doug Barton:
What’s it going to be today?
Justin Swenson:
Today will probably be rock climbing.
Yesterday, I played indoor soccer with a group of people. On Sundays, especially in the summer, I normally have an outdoor soccer league that I play in.
I’ll probably go rock climbing sometime this evening.
Doug Barton:
Well, there you go. It’s thrilling to see you include both of them.
My love is biking, but you probably knew that already. That’s how I got my broken ribs and separated shoulder. That’s why Justin’s driving.
Let’s leave it there. Follow him on LinkedIn, Justin Swenson. Follow me, too.
We hope to see you at a UWEBC event in the future. If you’re not a member, why don’t you become one? We’re doing some important things, and we’ll help you meet the future more ready and confident.
That’s all for now. Bye, friends.
UWEBC Podcast Closing
If you want to keep the conversation going, check out the UWEBC website for more events, resources, and details on what’s coming next. Thanks for listening, and from the UWEBC, we’re glad you joined us.